Let me see if I’ve got this right…

If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.

If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

If you cross the U.S. border illegally you get

1 – a job,
2 – a drivers license,
3 – social security card,
4 – welfare,
5 – food stamps,
6 – credit cards
7 – subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,
8 – free education,
9 – free health care,
10 – a lobbyist in Washington
11 – billions of dollars worth of public documents printed in your language
12 – and the right to carry your country’s flag while you protest that you don’t get enough respect

I just wanted to make sure I had a firm grasp on the situation…

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44 Responses to Let me see if I’ve got this right…

  1. Joy says:

    This subject ticks me off more than you know. I know too many honest people that come to this country the “right and legal” way and they have to jump through hoops to stay and then…..ahhhh, never mind!!!

  2. The Center Square says:

    Isn’t this why America is great, and those countries are not?

    • Joy says:

      It’s not great if people don’t do it the right way and get legal. I’m totally 100% in support of people who want to come here. Most of our ancestors did but you have to do it legally and right and not be sneaking around and breaking our laws.

  3. The Center Square says:

    Well, people have done it the wrong way and illegally for 250 years, and we’re great. I think we’re a great nation, and I don’t think illegal immigration puts that at risk. Just my opinion.

    • Joy says:

      I’m only going to assume you’re kidding me. You think it’s okay to be here illegally? Meanwhile all the rest of us pay for everything for you that you don’t have to? No, sorry, that’s NOT fine and it’s not an opinion. It’s against the law.

  4. The Center Square says:

    No, I do think it is wrong. I just don’t think it is makes anything very bad happen.

    • Joy says:

      I’m just going to sit back here and wait for the loyal followers of this blog to see this.

    • shane says:

      Nothing bad happens???
      They steal our jobs.
      We pay for their medical expenses.
      They drive illegally “without insurance” then when they get into an accident we pay for that.
      We pay for there housing,food,etc.etc.etc.

      Wake up!!

  5. The Center Square says:

    Now you have me curious. Is there something catastrophic that you and the loyal followers of this blog see in illegal immigration?

    Again, I do think it’s wrong and should be stopped, but it seems more like illegal drug use, or speeding. It’s not a big deal. What do you think I’m missing?

    • SKL says:

      Center Square, what part of the country do you live in? Just want to understand where your perspective is coming from.

    • SKL says:

      If you were a taxpayer in California, I think you would understand the intense frustration felt. A substantial percentage of their tax dollars go to pay for benefits for illegal immigrants and their children. At some point, the tax burden gets very painful and takes away from citizens’ own children. By the way, many of the benefits that these taxpayers are subsidizing are not even available to their own children.

      Also, if it’s true that 20M or so illegals are working here, can you imagine how much payroll tax is not being collected on them, and who is making up the difference?

      Then too, there is a pretty high crime rate (aside from their illegal status) among illegal immigrants – particularly in areas where this population is concentrated – and when they are caught and convicted of serious crimes, some states aren’t allowed to deport them.

      I’m sure others can fill you in on other issues; I’m too tired right now.

      • shane says:

        Also if we deported these 20 million illegal immagrants that would open up a lot of jobs. People say they do jobs that we wouldn’t but I think with the economy the way it is a lot of people would be happy to do those jobs. And like SKL said these illegals don’t pay a payroll tax. If american citizens took there jobs, are unemployment rate would drop, there would be millions of dollars more in tax’s paid “that our government would throw away anyway”
        Bottom line- more jobs available, more money going to our government, and I can’t leave out “the crime rate would drop”

    • Laura says:

      @ Center Square:

      Illegal: adjective. not according to or authorized by law. unlawful. illicit.

      What part don’t you understand?

      Illegal drug use and speeding have killed people. And not just those who committed the crime, so don’t try pulling the “victimless crime” nonsense. Do you really want to go there?

      Problem 1:
      Here in Iowa, we’ve had problems lately (in recent years) with Whooping Cough and Mumps, two diseases that were nearly eradicated a decade or so ago. Now they’re becoming a problem again. Why? Because Iowa also has a decent population of illegal residents, none of whom have been vaccinated. And some of whom have brought the diseases into the states. I would categorize “epidemic” as potentially catastrophic. It’s certainly how I would define the unnecessary death of infants who contract whooping cough because they are too young to be vaccinated.

      Problem 2:
      My niece and two nephews have worked very hard to get into the colleges that they’re attending. When they were examining the tuition of various institutions of higher learning, they discovered that they could receive reduced tuition, if only they had entered this country illegally!! But, since they were native to America (and not “Native American”), they would have to pay the higher In-state (read: resident and taxpayer) tuition. After all, SOMEONE has to subsidize the illegals, right? Because THEY have a right to an education.

      Problem 3:
      Emergency Rooms, particularly in Southern California, are shutting down left and right. Why? Because of the flow of illegals across the border who enter the E.R., make use of their fine services, and then cannot pay. The hospitals are going bankrupt thanks to compassion laws which state that every person must receive treatment regardless of ability to pay. The only problem is, if they’re a resident, they have to find a way to pay, or the hospital will send collectors, and ultimately the law, after them. If the patient is illegal, he disappears, and never pays a cent. And then the costs go up for the rest of the people who pay. Including insurance companies. Which opens up a whole other can of worms that we will leave alone for now.

      Problem 4:
      Many of the illegals who come here are not attached to family. Rather, they are brought here by nefarious individuals who use them to traffic their drugs, and then channel them into an underground world that includes prostitution and further drug trade. Because they are here illegally, they have little recourse against those who would abuse them. Even though law enforcement would likely help them, they are reluctant to go, because they know they are here illegally, and will likely be deported. So they stay underground, sometimes homeless, turning tricks, doing and dealing drugs. And that is all assuming that they survive the trip across the border. Assuming they make it across without being raped and beaten by the “coyotes” who bring them. Assuming they are not left for dead by those same “coyotes”.

      But you’re right. It’s not a big deal.

  6. SKL says:

    I don’t think illegal immigration is destroying the country YET, but only because we still do have raids and such and make some effort to prevent the free northward flow.

    It is pretty easy for these folks to lead an almost “normal” life here. They just get someone who is here legally to put their name on everything. Wait quietly for the government to finally give you “amnesty” on the logic that you’ve been here so long.

    But many of my friends, and even I on behalf of my daughters, have had to go through so much to win the right to participate in this country. Because they did it the right way, they now get to participate fully in paying taxes and fulfilling other duties.

    I would not mind having laws that allowed these folks to come here and work (legally and pay taxes), travel, etc., but NOT to receive welfare-type benefits paid for by taxpayers. If people are here to live the American dream, let them pursue it the way we all do – by working and saving for decades. And I do not advocate for letting illegal parents stay just because their kids were born here.

    And it really bugs me that these folks have a political lobby and an attitude that this country is not doing enough for them. Hello! This is not your country! You don’t even have a legal right to be in this country! How wonderfully would Mexico treat me if I were sneaking around there illegally? Would they give me a health card and a HS diploma?

    When I went to China (legally on a visitor’s visa), I was not hindered, but I was treated rather coldly by nearly everyone (excepting our paid tour guides), especially the authorities. When my credit card didn’t work in a store, the looks I got suggested the police might be on their way soon. When I went to Peru, no authorities kissed my butt. In Spain? Nope. My kids’ home country? Nope. India? Nope (actually feared for my life a few times, given the recent order by Bin Laden for Muslims to kill Americans wherever they find them). So why do people from all countries expect the USA to welcome them warmly, make them feel like home, and beg them to never leave?

  7. The Center Square says:

    I do know this causes problems, and I do know they are more severe in border states. I live in Chicago, which has among the highest concentrations of illegals other than in border states.

    But isn’t the data clear that illegal immigrants as a whole contribute in taxes an amount equal to the government services they use? And that there is a substantial benefit to consumers in general from lower prices, resulting from the cheap labor.

    I’m not arguing in favor in illegal immigration, or saying there are no problems from it, or that we should be lax in enforcing the law, or even that it is particularly moral as consumers to benefit from cheap illegal labor. Only that it’s pretty far down the list of things to worry about. I don’t understand the concern; I don’t understand the intense fervor of the concern. Sorry, that’s just the way I feel.

    • SKL says:

      I know the rhetoric is that they all pay taxes. But that is not the reality. Either they pay taxes and get paid normal wages which have no particular benefit (moral or immoral) for the US consumer, or they get paid cheap wages under the table and pay no taxes, thus costing the consumer (taxpayer) when they use tax-subsidized services for free.

      The other BS argument is that these people are all doing jobs Americans wouldn’t want anyway. Ignoring the fact that people who earn crap wages don’t pay taxes (in fact they get back money they didn’t pay, e.g., child tax credit), this argument just isn’t true. I live in a state where unemployment is especially high. I just learned that an acquaintance’s illegal relative has gotten a very good job which lots of unemployed Americans would love to have. How he got the job (with the I-9 requirements) I don’t know and don’t want to know. I just know that many unemployed US citizens (currently receiving tax-funded benefits) would have loved to have that job.

      So no, it’s not like there’s this huge implosion occurring, but it’s upsetting because there are too many people in this country who have done all the right things for their whole lives, and now struggle, while people who have snuck in the back door are not only eating at our table but sometimes getting there first.

      I know corruption and cheating is shrugged at in some places, but most of us grew up in places where these are still considered a big deal. Personally, I am proud of that fact and would like to keep it that way.

  8. The Center Square says:

    Correction: I tried to say: “I DO understand the concern; I just don’t understand the intense fervor of the concern.”

    Apologies.

  9. Ellen says:

    It is not that this subject doesn’t interest me, I am just to short in this country to contribute to this discussion. BTW I am a legal Alien 🙂 And it is very hard to get a legal resident card. Even if everything is in order. But, it is the same in other Western countries. I am very glad to be a “legal” resident.

  10. LVISS says:

    YES IT IS A BIT STRANGE THING. WHY NOT CUT OUT THE THING AT THE BORDER ITSELF.

  11. moodswing mabel says:

    Amen. How sickeningly true is this description of what happens to an ILLEGAL *hence the name, it’s AGAINST THE LAW, but instead of getting punished, they get rewarded. What a load of —-!

  12. Laura says:

    @ Center Square… please stop apologizing for your opinions and your views. Even though you have different ones from us, as long as you’re nice about it, you are more than welcome here. You are among friends.

    That’s not to say that you shouldn’t be passionate – some of us love a good debate. Just stay away from the personal attacks, and don’t be rude. You never have to apologize for the way you feel.

  13. Lucy says:

    I see what all of you are saying… but I’m glad the the US doesn’t stoop down to the levels of the countries mentioned above. I couldn’t justify living in a country where “illegals” would be detained without rights, put to work, or shot!!

    I understand all the issues that are created by illegal immigration, but sometimes I try to think about it from the view point of these illegal immigrants (and I’m not talking about the criminal ones). In my opinion, these people (individuals, families) weren’t lucky enough to be born to a family in the states. They are often born to poor families in poor cities and villages of Mexico. Violence and crime may be rampant where they live and they have a hard time making a living. There are no jobs, no good schools, and children often have to be kept out of school in order for them to help support their families. Illegal activities and gangs are just waiting to prey on children and adolescents. These families do not have the money to try to legally enter this country. And even if they did…. they wouldn’t get residency (because its really hard to get a permanent visa or greencard!!!). What are they supposed to do? To many individuals and families the only way to have a better life, a job, an eduction (and future!!) for their children, is to come to the US! And the only way they can do it is illegally…..or do any of you see a different way?

    Most of the Americans today were just lucky enough that 100 years ago immigration policies were not as rigid and tight…otherwise their families would not have been able to enter the states legally either!! And we all were just lucky enough to be born to families within the states (or other westernized countries). And although we might still be poor, we at least have the opportunity to “live the American dream.”

    • Joy says:

      I’ll agree with you Lucy about being lucky to be born here and to be an American. I don’t necessarily think it was easy though when all our ancestors came here. So many people died on the way over here and also, it was a lot less populated then. One of my biggest problems with the illegals is the way health care has gotten and the government programs that they are using and our own people can’t. Also, way back, it wasn’t just people coming from Mexico and most weren’t thugs and trouble makers. We had law and order “back in the day” and most people wouldn’t have even thought twice about sneaking in and working under the table.

      My dad was a legal immigrant from Canada for most of my life. He became a citizen in the early 90’s. It wasn’t easy for him to file all those papers and keep things legal but he did it and so do most law abiding citizens. I absolutely hate it when someone wants something for nothing.

      I would hate some of the above scenario’s to happen too but I do think we are way to lax on some of our laws. Just one example is the drinking and driving. How many times can you get a DUI and keep driving? I think America has to follow some of these other countries who have no problems with some of this stuff. I think when our forefathers made these rules and laws, there weren’t the number of people living here and what worked then, just can’t work now.

      Nice guys finish last. I don’t know who said that but sometimes it’s very true.

    • SKL says:

      Yes, it is an unearned privilege to be born in the USA, but that does not mean the whole 6B population of the world should be allowed to move here without even paying their dues. If we do not crack down on those who do this illegally, what’s to stop the whole population of Mexico and Central America from moving into our border states?

      Again, I have no problem with these people coming here to work legally. There are already legal means for them to do that in the border states. We also have a lot of US-owned factories in Mexico which help to provide them a better living than they would have otherwise. But it’s wrong for them to get any US taxpayer-subsidized benefits except to the extent the US taxpayer wants to be generous. Lord knows we provide more than our share of aid to developing countries. We don’t like to see people suffer. But it’s one thing to donate, another to be stolen from.

      Keep in mind that America hasn’t always been a “rich” country (and most Americans are still pretty down-to-earth and hardworking). Our country became great because of our unique combination of limited government and entrepreneurial individuals. If they want the same benefits in Mexico, they need to go talk to the Mexican government and voters about it. Fleeing the country in droves is not going to help the majority of folks who still live there. Is it right to have compassion for those who snuck in here, knowing that this leaves many behind in even worse shape?

      My great grandfather is the most recent adult immigrant in my family. He was an electrical engineer (in those days) and yet he had to go through a lot to achieve citizensip for himself and his family, after crossing the ocean on a boat. One thing he absolutely insisted on was that everyone learn to speak impeccable English as quickly as possible. There were no special programs in the schools for foreign-language students. They were simply flunked if they didn’t keep up in KG, and as long as they looked or sounded any different from “mainstream” Americans, they were picked on mercilessly. That is not what I call easy.

      My best friend is an immigrant from another country. She came with $20 in her pocket, a single suitcase of belongings, and a one-year Rotary scholarship which she had earned via a competitive test. She ate corn flakes out of a coffee mug every morning, but she was happy to be here because life as a divorcee in her home country was not pleasant. She had to work under ridiculous working conditions for about 10 years until she got her green card. Then she started her own business. She continues to work long hours and fight against discrimination every day. There is nothing easy about it.

      A man I dated for 6 years is an immigrant from China. After finishing his Master’s (legally), he applied for the legal right to stay because he was an intellectual-non-gratis in China. For decades he was afraid to return to visit China and had no chance of seeing his parents, who could have been persecuted (they had already served about a decade in labor camps). He borrowed money from friends to go to law school and built his own practice from the ground up. As far as I know he is still paying off his loans decades later, though he has two kids to raise. Nothing about his life history has been easy.

      I could go on, but I think the point is clear. It’s not like non-Mexican immigrants have it easy and we’re just making it rough for Mexicans. Let them fill out the papers, work at a real job, and pay taxes just like other (legal) immigrants. No more cheating, no more handouts, no more misplaced sympathy. Or better yet, maybe we should ship them all to Canada and see what Canada does with them. Surely our lack of compassion is unique to the USA.

    • SKL says:

      By the way:

      “although we might still be poor, we at least have the opportunity to “live the American dream.”

      Why isn’t there a Mexican dream?

  14. Joy says:

    I also forgot one other thing. If parents are here illegally, then they are teaching their kids it’s okay to break the law and in turn, will these children think it’s okay to break the law if they think they don’t like it? It can be a never ending cycle. Children do learn what they live and if the parents are “hiding out” and not living an honest life, their kids see that and must think it’s okay.

    Right?

    I do also think it’s a huge slap in the face to the people who do it the right way. It can take years and they hang in there so why shouldn’t everyone have do it that way?

  15. The Center Square says:

    @ Joy: On the other hand, it is well established that the crime rate among illegal immigrants is much lower than for the population as a whole. (For the obvious reason: you or I shoplifting a sack of groceries gets us a minor sanction; an illegal immigrant doing the same thing gets deported.) I don’t think it is fair to say that the breaking of this one law is a singular example of bad parenting. By that reasoning, the average American is setting an even worse parenting example, and I don’t believe that.

    • SKL says:

      How can this be well-documented?

      • The Center Square says:

        Here’s a good summary of the crime statistics: http://americas.irc-online.org/am/4903

        • SKL says:

          Looked at your link. First of all, it is prepared by a biased organization. Second, it does not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants; it lumps together all immigrants from legal grad students to doctors to undocumented drug dealers. Third, it focuses mostly on incarceration rates, which are not a reliable estimate of crime rates, particularly since an undocumented alien may be deported or flee back across the border after committing a crime. In short, I find it unreliable. Also, personal experience and observation prove a different reality. MSSC’s stats below are interesting as well.

    • Joy says:

      So you think it’s okay to teach our children that if we don’t like any particular law, we don’t have to follow it? I don’t consider that good parenting. You say “this one law” like we have choices as to which ones we have to follow. The rest of us take our licks if we break the law. I realize even just the driving laws get broken but a lot of times that happens just from us not paying attention but living here and hiding out, working and not paying taxes and taking our government programs is breaking way more than one law.

  16. javajunkee says:

    omg I wish you could post this on facebook! And I get to work with them and do their taxes and watch them walk out with big ass refunds…while I barely get anything back. FKIN pisses me off!

  17. mssc54 says:

    Let’s not forget the burden on local schools for students who do not speak English either.

    Let us also remember that MOST illegals who are involved in a traffic offense NEVER show up for court. The injured (innocent) party (and their insurance company) is stuck with paying for all the repairs and medical bills.

    Here is the link for the statistics listed below if you want to read the entire report.
    http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_crime_summary.html

    In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
    There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.
    80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.
    Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.
    In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.
    At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year. ..
    56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.
    Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.
    Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.
    Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.
    Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.
    There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.
    Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.
    Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.
    In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.
    Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.
    The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.
    The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.

    • shanef says:

      Thanks for the link. I knew the stats where bad, but not that bad. My jaw hit the floor. And most of them are treated better than me. “free healthcare” “no taxes” maybe I should revoke my citizenship LOL!!

  18. mssc54 says:

    FYI I posted this on my Facebook page. 🙂

  19. sweetiegirlz says:

    I lived in Southern California for 2 years. One day i passed a pickup truck, with a large sticker in the back window. It read:

    LOS UNIDOS ESTADOS DE MEXICO

    I wanted to vomit.

    Thanks for this thought provoking and highly ironic post. I’m with you all the way.

  20. Laura says:

    Wow!!! I take the day to go buy a new bed, and the board explodes!!! Holy Smokes!

  21. Sanity says:

    I dont know, I haven’t been around much on blogs but saw this on fb (thanks Michael) and just to say… from experience… illegal aliens don’t get all those things listed, in fact if they do please let me know how because it blows my mind – I couldn’t do anything while I was prepping for my studdies UNTILL I had the visa – every single door was closed to me and even now a lot is still closed.

    As for the crime statistics, those are biased and do not list the actual Americans that do the same – I know for one that the pedophile numbers are greater as is the murder.

    Anyways thats my two cents, I go back into my cave 🙂

    • Joy says:

      It’s wonderful to see you Auds. Thanks for stopping by. You are welcome here anytime and are greatly missed.

      The reason things are hard for you is because you’re going about it “legally.” We have a neighbor who’s from the UK and it’s also very hard for him. That’s part of the problem. The illegals make it harder for the honest people who want to do things right.

    • mssc54 says:

      Sanity, your problem is that you are approaching your status as an honest, law abiding person.

      You must look at it from an illegal, sneaky, in the shadows perspective.

      You must find a person who is estasblished and experienced with fals identifications. Once you get yourself a drivers license under an assumed name the rest is a piece of cake.

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